San Diego - where to eat?

 Carrie E. wrote:
 >By the Beach:

 Some quibbles:

 >Jake's Del Mar (del mar, off of I-5)-seafood

 Okay but not great.

 >Chart House (chain- la jolla, solana beach, coronado) seafood, steak

 The Chart Houses generally are more on view than they are on food.

 Recommended from the sd.eats file:

 Las Olas,  2655 S Hwy 101.  Cardiff.  942.1860.                         $-$$
 Pacifica Del Mar,  1555 Camino Del Mar.  Del Mar.  792.0476.            $$$

 Pacifica Del Mar has a killer view.  Reservations are a must for the
 patio.

 >Pizza/Italian:
 >
 >B.J.'s Pizzaria (la jolla village square)

 Again, okay, but not great.

 >Olive Garden (chain)

 I'm not going to get back into *that* flamefest.  You can do decidely
 better, however.

 Try:

 Osteria Panevino, 722 Fifth Ave, San Diego 92101 595.7959               ****
 Fio's,  801 Fifth Ave.  Downtown.  234.3467.                            ****
 Piatti,  2182 Avenida de la Playa.  La Jolla.  454.1589.                ****
 Papachino's,  2650 Via de la Valle.  Del Mar.  481.7171.                **
 Papachino's,  7748 Regents Rd.  La Jolla.  546.7666.                    **
 Stefano's,  3671 Fifth Ave.  Hillcrest.  296.0975.                      **

 [I find the service at Stefano's to be a bit stuffy but the food is
 pretty good]

 Il Fornaio,  1555 Camino Del Mar.  Del Mar.  755.8876.                  **

 is off my recommended list.  The last time I was there, the service
 was marginal.  A friend of mine had an even more annoying experience
 -- he wanted to have wine by the glass and got into a wrangle with the
 waitron over seeing a wine list.  He was offered a choice:  red or
 white.

 >Spanish/Mediterranean:
 >
 >Tapa's (downtown on B street)

 I think this is

 La Gran Tapa,  611 B St.  Downtown.  234.8272.                          ***

 A Spanish postdoc of my acquaintance told me of the Spanish food in
 San Diego, La Gran Tapa was the best she'd had (of course, still not
 like Madrid but...).

 >Mexican/Southwestern:
 >Kiva Grill (la jolla/university city/near the hyatt of of la jolla village
 >dr)

 Another acquaintance of mine put his opinion of the Kiva Grill this
 way: the only way he'd ever go back would be "to loot the smoking
 ruins."  Your mileage may of course, vary.  If you're in the area, I
 suggest

 Cafe Japengo, 3787 La Jolla Village Dr.  La Jolla.  450.3355.           *****

 instead.

 >El Indio (off of india street/another one by horton plaza)

 More of a takeout place.  I've enjoyed it the couple of times I've
 been to the India Street location but its not something I'd make a big
 effort to visit.

 >Casa de Pico (old town)
 >Casa de Bandini (old town)

 Old Town is serious turista country.  The waits at Casa de Bandini and
 Casa de Pico are very long, or have been the few times that I've been
 there.  My Mexicano collegues are lukewarm about the quality of the
 food.  Of the two, I like Casa de Bandini better but only marginally.
 Casa de Bandini tends to be very noisy.

 I tend to like

 The Market Cafe,  650 Valley Ave.  Solana Beach.  755.5988              ****

 at least for the best machaca in the area, though I know that mikec
 may disagree.

 Other recommendations:

 Cilantro's,  3702 Via de la Valle.  Del Mar.   259.8777                 ****
 Alfonso's,  1251 Prospect.  La Jolla.  454.2232.                        **

 (Though I'm not especially fond of Alfonso's, a number of
 folks on the sdnet.eats group seem to like it -- one person so much so
 that he went to the effort of calling me on the phone to take me to
 task.)
 >Seafood (not by the beach):
 >
 >Brigantine Seafood Grill (old town)

 I've been to the one out in the Encinitas area and was not impressed
 (I presume they're part of the same chain).

 I much prefer

 The Fish Market,  640 Via de la Valle.  Solana Beach.  755.2277.        ****

 I *strongly* recommend reservations here, since the waits can be
 pretty intolerable, otherwise.

 There is also another location downtown

 The Fish Market/Top of the Market,  750 N Harbor Dr.  232.3474          *

 at which I've found the food and the service to be less than sterling.
 I may have just been there at off times, since I've also eaten at The
 Fish Market in Sunnyvale and found it to be good.

 >"American":

 >Bully's East (camino del rio south, mission valley)
 >Buly's North (del mar)

 I enjoy these when I get in the mood for good cow.

 >Hungry Hunter (chain) (mission valley, rancho bernardo)

 Large portions but the place is very noisy (a word to restaurant
 architects: noise does not equal ambiance)!

 I had ribs when I was there and the sauce was uninteresting at best.
 My companion was similarly unimpressed with her prime rib.

                                           spl

 Carrie E. wrote:
 >By the Beach:
 >
 >T.D. Hays (pacific beach)-seafood, steaks
 >Jake's Del Mar (del mar, off of I-5)-seafood
 >Chart House (chain- la jolla, solana beach, coronado) seafood, steak
 >Harbor House (seaport village) seafood

 These are all decent tourist places, but I can't get excited about them.  I
 slightly prefer The Rusty Pelican in PB among Beach Places, but it's not
 stellar.  With a few exceptions (George's at the Cove, Trattoria Acqua, Pacifica
 Del Mar, Peohe's and Quiig's come to mind), food quality is inversely
 proportional to the view in San Diego.

 >Pizza/Italian:
 >
 >Trattoria la Strada (camino del rio south, mission valley)

 I assume this is related to La Strada in the Gaslamp, in which case, I heartily
 agree.

 >Tutto Mare (university city on executive drive in the pacifica bldg)
 >Sorrentino's (on clairemont mesa blvd, strip mall)

 OK to here, I would add:  Trattoria Acqua, Piatti and Osteria Panevino.  If
 you like Sicilian style food (Tomato sauce with lots of Garlic), Busalacci's is
 good.

 >Olive Garden (chain)

 Sorry, you couldn't get me to go to an Olive Garden in San Diego if you paid
 me.

 >Spanish/Mediterranean:
 >
 >Tapa's (downtown on B street)
 >Ole Madrid (downtown- gaslamp quarter)
 >Cafe Sevilla (downt- gaslamp quarter)

 I rate Yo Espania in PB better than these three, though La Gran Tapas and
 Ole Madrid are certainly very good also.

 >Mexican/Southwestern:
 >dr)
 >El Indio (off of india street/another one by horton plaza)
 >Casa de Pico (old town)
 >Casa de Bandini (old town)

 These are all OK, but I don't get excited about them.

 The best Mexican food in town right now is at Chilango's in Hillcrest.  Guadal-
 ahara Grill and El Tecolote are far distant seconds.

 >Seafood (not by the beach):
 >
 >Brigantine Seafood Grill (old town)

 How about:  Cafe Pacifica, George's at the Cove, Point Loma Seafoods and
 Peohe's?

 Mike

 Steve L. wrote:
 >Carrie E. wrote:
 >>Olive Garden (chain)
 >
 >I'm not going to get back into *that* flamefest.  You can do decidely
 >better, however.

 I dunno Steve, it is "The Best Italian Restaurant" in town by the San Diego
 U-T readers poll.

 >Try:
 >
 >Osteria Panevino, 722 Fifth Ave, San Diego 92101 595.7959               ****
 >Fio's,  801 Fifth Ave.  Downtown.  234.3467.                            ****
 >Piatti,  2182 Avenida de la Playa.  La Jolla.  454.1589.                ****
 >Papachino's,  2650 Via de la Valle.  Del Mar.  481.7171.                **
 >Papachino's,  7748 Regents Rd.  La Jolla.  546.7666.                    **
 >Stefano's,  3671 Fifth Ave.  Hillcrest.  296.0975.                      **
 >
 >[I find the service at Stefano's to be a bit stuffy but the food is
 >pretty good]

 It's been erratic for me.  A few stellar meals, but mostly just OK.

 >Il Fornaio,  1555 Camino Del Mar.  Del Mar.  755.8876.                  **
 >
 >is off my recommended list.  The last time I was there, the service
 >was marginal.

 And it's only taken you four years to see the light...  :-)  I *knew* that
 eventually your luck would run out at Il Fornaio.  On the other hand the
 wine bar/takeout place across from and related to Il Fornaio is very good.
 Their sandwiches made with Il Fornaio bread (I do get bread and deserts from
 the Il Fornaio bakery) are very, very good.

 >>Spanish/Mediterranean:
 >>
 >>Tapa's (downtown on B street)
 >
 >I think this is
 >
 >La Gran Tapa,  611 B St.  Downtown.  234.8272.                          ***
 >
 >A Spanish postdoc of my acquaintance told me of the Spanish food in
 >San Diego, La Gran Tapa was the best she'd had (of course, still not
 >like Madrid but...).

 Ah, but has she been to Yo Espania?  Perhaps the new owners of La Gran Tapas
 have revived it, but I wouldn't rate La Gran Tapas over either Ole Madrid or
 Yo Espania.  Also, the crowd at La Gran Tapas is your typical Yuppie crowd,
 where the crowd at Ole Madrid is more of a young Eurocrowd and Yo Espania is
 a young (but upscale) beachy crowd (what can I say, I haven't found a Tapas
 place that caters to the Old Fart crowd ;-)

 >The Market Cafe,  650 Valley Ave.  Solana Beach.  755.5988              ****
 >
 >at least for the best machaca in the area, though I know that mikec
 >may disagree.

 Since you asked...  :-)  Actually, I have no problem with most of the
 restaurants in Eden Gardens (Fidel's, The Bluebird Cafe or The Market Cafe)
 except for Tony Jacal's, which was absolutely dreadful the last (emphasis on
 LAST) time I was there.  They all serve fairly decent, middle of the road,
 Gringo food.  Ditto for the restaurants in Old Town.  The only exception is
 Guadalahara Grill, but order from the "Regional Specialties" page which is now
 buried behind all the combination plates, etc.

 If you want real Mexican food that's inexpensive also, try Chilango's in
 Hillcrest.

 >
 >Other recommendations:
 >
 >Cilantro's,  3702 Via de la Valle.  Del Mar.   259.8777                 ****
 >Alfonso's,  1251 Prospect.  La Jolla.  454.2232.                        **
 >
 >(Though I'm not especially fond of Alfonso's, a number of
 >folks on the sdnet.eats group seem to like it -- one person so much so
 >that he went to the effort of calling me on the phone to take me to
 >task.)

 I suppose one could argue that Alfonso's is the best Mexican restaurant in
 La Jolla, it is better than Jose's (which, sadly, has definitely gone way
 downhill, it used to beat the pants off Alfonso's).  Alfonso's is another
 middle of the road Gringo place.  Now, if there were a *berto's in La Jolla,
 it'd be a no-brainer.  Have I mentioned Chilango's in Hillcrest yet?  :-)

 >I much prefer
 >
 >The Fish Market,  640 Via de la Valle.  Solana Beach.  755.2277.        ****
 >
 >I *strongly* recommend reservations here, since the waits can be
 >pretty intolerable, otherwise.
 >
 >There is also another location downtown
 >
 >The Fish Market/Top of the Market,  750 N Harbor Dr.  232.3474          *
 >
 >at which I've found the food and the service to be less than sterling.
 >I may have just been there at off times, since I've also eaten at The
 >Fish Market in Sunnyvale and found it to be good.

 Right on.  Let me just add that I had the second worst dining experience I've
 had in the last ten years at the downtown Fish Market (the worst was Tony
 Jacal's).  Both the Fish Market's in Del Mar and Silicon Valley have been
 consistently very good.

 This is getting scary, Steve, we're starting to agree....

 Mike

 P.S. Have I mentioned Chilango's in Hillcrest yet?  :-)

 Someone wrote:
 >Yes, you can do decidely better in San Diego than the Olive Garbage. :)
 >
 >However, you won't find any "great" food there. After living there for a
 >considerable amount of time, I'm convinced the restaurants, as a whole,
 >were/are average at best; nothing really spectacular. San Diego is known for
 >its weather (the most perfect in the world) and its wonderful beach/coastline.
 >Beyond that, there's not much else.

 San Diego is definitely not a food city like San Francisco or New York.
 However, there are a few restaurants that are at least "above average" though
 arguably not "great" or "outstanding".

 >Someone mentioned:
 >
 >Jake's in Del Mar - great view, right on the beach; fair food - large plates,
 >small portions, over-priced.
 >
 >The Chart House - wonderful view if you're going to the one in La Jolla; food
 >is average.
 >
 >Elarios - "atop the Summer House Inn" in La Jolla - grand view, good/average
 >food. Service varies from excellent to fair, depending on who you get.
 >
 >The Marine Room - I think this place has one of the most impressive views as
 >the sun is setting over the ocean. And with the ocean slamming into the
 >window... great! The food is very average (and way overpriced); service is
 >fair. But, I definitely think you're paying for the view here.

 These are all pretty mediocre and overpriced.  George's at the Cove, Pacifica
 Del Mar or Trattoria Acqua are all better than these, and have views.  You
 will not, however, confuse any of these with a Michelin three-star restaurant.

 >Moving to downtown San Diego:
 >
 >Mr. A's: San Diego pretentiousness at it's best. This one is on the top floor
 >of some building. A coat and tie are required. Excellent view, really average
 >to fair food, and stuffy service. It's just not worth it.

 Blech, you couldn't pay me to go there.  I'd rather go to Olive Garden.

 >Fio's - Italian. This is definitely good food; flavorful. I don't remember the
 >price (who cares when the food is good). Service is better than average.
 >
 >Osteria Panevino - Italian. Excellent food here! Service is 'ok' and the bread
 >was average, my salad was actually very good (and I don't like salad) but my
 >entree was superb! I remember the last time I was there, I went with two other
 >people - the total cost hovered about $70 and no one ordered drinks.

 I would rate these both good to very good, again, not outstanding.

 >I could go on, but as I said, you won't find that many "outstanding" places in
 >San Diego.

 Mille Fleurs, El Bizcocho and Marius are considered by most foodies to be the
 "best" restaurants in San Diego.  They would probably give a Michelin Guide
 one-star restaurant a run for its money.

 For that matter, I've bumbled into any number of 50FF-100FF Menu restaurants
 in podunk villages in France that would beat the pants off nearly all the
 restaurants I've been to in the US (much less San Diego).

 Mike

 Try Sushi Ota off of Balboa and Grand.